Caveh Zahedi - Superstars Only

Daniela

So, I took your class, personal documentary, last year and I want to know if you remember any of my work from that class.

Caveh

Of course.

Daniela

What did you think? Because I remember we had some –

Caveh

Aesthetic differences.

Daniela

Yes.

Caveh

I mean, I remember thinking like, you seem strange to me, in the sense that I didn't totally understand where you were coming from. It was a kind of humor that wasn't exactly mine. I didn't get the level of the humor. It was a little campy, which is not my thing. And it was also very consistent. And you seemed to be interested in stardom. And there was someone you were really interested in? Was it Lana Del Rey?

Daniela

Yeah.

Caveh

I related to that part of it, at least, because I'm also very interested in fame. And I've always wanted to be famous. And I'm kind of fascinated by fame and famous people. But also, you had a kind of irony or self-criticism. There was something self-aware about the limits of that or the problems with that. That's what I remember. Your pieces were all a little campy or jokey about that stuff. And both interested and also distanced at the same time.

Daniela

Yeah. Okay, that was pretty spot on. I remember in our class you talked about how important it was to be vulnerable with your work. And again, I felt like I had different takes on what can be vulnerable. Do you think the awareness of needing or wanting to be vulnerable loses a level of honesty?

Caveh

I guess if you want to be vulnerable that can make it less honest, because you're trying to be vulnerable when you're not really feeling vulnerable. You can try too hard.

Daniela

Do you think a performance can be vulnerable?

Caveh

That's a good question. I think a performance can be vulnerable. Yeah. But I think there's a dialectic between performance and authenticity, let's call it, that is always present. It's not a pure vulnerability or pure authenticity. It's always mediated by some performative relationship to itself.

Daniela

I was just curious because I felt like in a lot of the things that I was doing in your class I found myself always using performance to be vulnerable.

Caveh

I'm sure you showing your pieces probably felt vulnerable to you. And there's always the vulnerability of whether people like it or not, or whether people will like you or not. But that's a slightly different vulnerability than trying to be vulnerable. Like, you can be very affected and worry people won't like your affectation, or you could try to be very vulnerable and worry people won't like your vulnerability or how your vulnerability is coming off. So I felt like there was a vulnerability in your performance because someone might not like it, but it didn't feel to me that you were being vulnerable in the way you were performing. But, again, it was just a difference between us. And we kind of butted up against it a bunch.

Daniela

Yeah, but I think that's what made the class really fun for me. Anyways, what made you start teaching at The New School?

Caveh

I had a kid. And I needed a full-time job. So I applied to 31 schools, and the only one that hired me was The New School.

Daniela

What other schools did you apply to?

Caveh

Any school that had a full-time position. You know, they were in lots of different states and even countries. I only got one other interview. It was at, I think, Massachusetts College of the Arts. It's an art school in Boston. I was a finalist, but I didn't get the job. At the New School, I was a finalist and I also got the job.

Daniela

Do you enjoy teaching at The New School?

Caveh

I do. I have a love-hate relationship to teaching. A few years ago, I was on sabbatical, which I was really looking forward to. Every seven years, you get a paid semester off. And I realized that I was actually more depressed when I wasn't teaching than when I was teaching, which was a big surprise to me.

Caveh

So, I realized that it really gives me something. It gives me structure. It gives me community. And it keeps the despair away. So I liked that about it. I like young people generally. It makes me feel like I know what's going on. It keeps me kind of engaged or young or something, I don't know.

Caveh

I don't love The New School administration. The longer you are somewhere, the more resentments you develop. So, in a way I like it less and less on some levels.

Caveh

Also, I really don't agree with most of contemporary PC culture. A lot of the things that the students think and say I just don't relate to. So I think increasingly, I find a lot of what the students think really off-putting and kind of absurd. You know, this hyper-obsession with race and gender and pronouns.

Caveh

Also, there's a real judgmentalness in cancel culture that I'm philosophically opposed to. Everyone is so busy virtue-signaling all the time that it's not only counter productive for the world, but for the students themselves. People are trying to make people adhere to standards that aren't human. So, everyone has to kind of lie, and pretend that they're something they're not, which I think causes neurosis and dysfunction. I see my students having increasingly unrealistic expectations for themselves and others. And I find that alarming. And I feel like it's harder and harder to be yourself without somebody being offended.

Caveh

Like, when I was young and went to college, professors would say stuff and sometimes it was upsetting, but you didn't have the sense that they weren't allowed to, or that they shouldn't hurt your feelings. And now there's this weird assumption that everyone else has to tip toe around your feelings. It's like a weird kind of solipsism where young people think they're at the center of the universe and that the universe is here to comfort you and reassure you and confirm your prejudices and your beliefs. And if you don't do that, then people get really upset. It seems like it's creating a generation with no backbone or inner strength and it seems like when they leave here, they're going to have nervous breakdowns because the real world is not this place where everyone is looking out for your feelings all the time.

Daniela

I remember in our class, there was kind of a moment where you almost got canceled, I felt. Or they were trying to do that with the whole John Lennon thing...I don't know if you remember?

Caveh

I do remember the John Lennon thing. But when you say I almost got canceled–like in the class you mean?

Daniela

Yeah, I mean, I could definitely see how the conversation was kind of leading towards that. Is that challenging for you: being aware you might run into a situation where you could possibly get canceled by your own students?

Caveh

Yeah. I mean, it's become a thing that I never would have worried about before. And now I do a little bit. So it makes teaching less fun when you have to censor yourself all the time because some ignorant, usually entitled person decided that they found something you said distasteful. And instead of being like, "I disagree," or whatever, they make it so you can't say it. So, yeah, it makes teaching not only less fun, but also less growthful for all concerned.

Daniela

When did you start to see that shift in the classrooms?

Caveh

It's been gradual. I've been here for like 12 years and every year it seems a little worse. But I also sort of see a backlash against it happening. So it's hard to know how much of it is on the way out and how much of it is getting worse. But, I've noticed, maybe in the last year, a lot of people who are really rebelling against this thing that was itself a rebellion against something else. And so, I kind of feel like it's changing, but it's slow.

Caveh

But for the "cancel" thing - you were talking about how somebody made a film about how they didn't like the Beatles because John Lennon was an "abuser." And I sort of questioned their knowledge of what had happened and their ability to judge it. And I said, "Who here has never hit someone?" and half the students raised their hands. One girl said, "How hard?" There was this notion that it's somehow outrageous for anyone to ever hit anyone else. My experience is that hitting is pretty human. Nobody thinks it's great, but people have done it and will do it. I was surprised. I thought maybe the students were just lying about it. But, people said to me that they believed it and that some people have never experienced… violence?

Caveh

I remember someone said, "You yelled at me." And I was like, "I didn't yell at you, I just spoke a little loudly and a little critically." And they were like, "Yeah, that's yelling." But that's not what yelling used to mean. Yelling used to mean, "HEY!" You know, that was yelling. Now, it's just like, I disagree with you and therefore you yelled at me. The definitions of things keep morphing. Definitions of things like rape. The word rape is used for something much wider than it used to be used for, for example. Or harassment. Or racism. Like, racism used to mean something specific: you think some races are actually inferior to others. Now, I don't even know what it means. It's gotten so extreme that racism is basically everything. It just means that you grew up in this society.

Daniela

Is this something that you talk a lot about in your classes?

Caveh

No. I don't because it just seems like too much of a minefield. Someone's going to be upset and complain to the administration and there's going to be an investigation and they're going to say, "that wasn't very sensitive of you to say that,'' so it doesn't seem worth it. Instead of having conversations that I think are important, and should be had, everyone avoids them. And everyone tries to just play it safe and, you know, basically kiss ass to the reigning ideology.

Daniela

So in that case, what are you hoping a student takes away from your class?

Caveh

I guess different things in different classes. But for Personal Documentary, I sort of try to make it okay to be vulnerable, to be honest, to be flawed, and to show people that showing your flaws is actually endearing and touching to other people and healing for people to see. And not to try to appear more virtuous than people are. Everyone is trying to look better than they are. I'm trying to show that it's actually better if you show the worst parts of yourself, because that's what people need to see and that's where we can actually join together in a way and make it feel like we're not alone.

Caveh

Like, right now I'm teaching Personal Documentary and I think the people feel really safe saying things that they would normally be ashamed of or embarrassed about. So I think making that okay is valuable. I think I try to show them by example by just being honest about when you don't like something, for example. Among the many things you're not supposed to do is you're never supposed to criticize anybody's work and that you should only say positive things. These are absurd rules that exist only to protect people's feelings, as if that's going to help you in life. Being an artist involves being attacked over and over again. All the time. That's what being an artist is.

Caveh

And everybody wants to be an artist, but no one's willing to be attacked. So everyone's like, "Can I just be an artist without the attacks?" And then you try something and someone attacks you and then you just can't handle it because you have no inner strength. And so everyone has a crisis after they graduate because there's no one to tell them that their work is good. Instead, the world is telling you that your work isn't that good and they can't handle it because they're not used to it. So, I feel like it's really helpful to just say the truth to people about what you think. And not that it's objective, but just to be like, "I didn't like your piece," or "I thought your performance seemed phony and invulnerable" even if I'm wrong, it's helpful. If you're serious about making work after you graduate, it's helpful to start to grapple with the feelings that arise from that because it's hard to process those feelings. It's hard to be criticized.

Daniela

I mean, you were one of the very first teachers that I've ever heard say, "I hate that."

Caveh

And it's kind of a taboo, like, you're not supposed to say that.

Daniela

I remember, it was crazy for me to hear that. But also, it wasn't terrifying. You would always tell me when you didn't like something and what you didn't like about it and that was really motivating and helped me a lot as a student. Do you think being a good artist is something that can be taught?

Caveh

I mean, some things can be taught. I think the main issue is how honest somebody can be with themself, which is a complicated psychological thing that has to do with childhood, trauma, parenting, society, and maybe even past lives. But, I don't think you can take somebody whose attitude towards life is dishonest and phony and turn them into a great artist. All you can do is encourage them to be less phony and maybe something can come out of that.

Caveh

I think in the Personal Documentary class, most of the first projects tend to be a little on the phony side and by the end, they're less so. So, I think you can move people in the right direction, but the honesty required to be a great artist is something that the person has to already have within themself as well as the desire to be honest.

Caveh

My wife and I broke up a few years ago and the thing that always strikes me about her is that she's not really interested in the truth. For example, I think if you want to be an artist, the real question is, "How good am I really? How good am I right now? And how can I be better?" But most people don't want to ask that question. They want the answer to be, "I'm great, shut the fuck up. And I don't need to get better because I'm already great." But that's not usually true.

Caveh

Usually, we're not as good as we could be and maybe we're better than some people but worse than others. So, how do we actually grow? We grow by looking at ourselves honestly and asking, "What are my failings? What are my weaknesses? What are my limitations? What do I need to work on? What do I need to get better at?"

Caveh

And most people don't even want to know the answer to that because it's too threatening to their identity because they think that if they're not great, then they're awful. And if they're awful, they should just kill themselves. It's an existential thing for a lot of people – they think they would have to die. Like, they'd have to kill themself because they couldn't live with who they really are. And that's why people are so uptight about identity and stuff because it's tied to survival or at least it seems like it's tied to survival for a lot of people. I've seen a lot of people like this. They just can't handle the truth and they don't want to know the truth. They really just want you to tell them that they're great. And if that's what somebody wants, I don't think they're ever going to be a great artist. That's not what makes great art. Great art is asking hard questions and really growing.

Daniela

I didn't think I realized that until after your class, but it should be obvious. But again, when you have classes where that's the approach to things, you kind of forget you don't need to be told that you're great all the time.

Caveh

I think people do need encouragement but a lot of teachers, like their thing is, "I'm just going to encourage everybody." And, you know, there's something to say for that. I need encouragement, too. But if it's all you're giving people and they're not getting any critical perspective, I don't know.

Caveh

It's also just a personality thing. Some people are just very nurturing by nature and it would be unnatural for them to be critical. Their whole thrust is, "it's good, it's really good. You're great. Keep doing what you're doing." That's just not who I am. I'm just a critical person. I think critically, I speak critically. That's what I can offer people: my criticism. And I'm not that nurturing, and some people—they need nurturing. You need different things at different times in your life; there are times when you really need some nurturing and times when you really need some criticism. And so I think there's room for everybody.

Caveh

If some people are like, this doesn't feel right for me, or this is too threatening to me, then it's fine for them to be like, I don't want to be in this class or I don't want to have this teacher. Most people kind of intuitively know what they need, but a lot of people just want to be comfortable. It seems like our society is constructed to make us comfortable rather than to make us grow, and I think we're here to grow, not to be comfortable. Most people seem to think, especially in academia, and especially at the New School, that we're here to make the students as comfortable as possible. To me it just seems like a rip-off. Like, we're taking people's money and pretending we're helping them but really we're just ripping them off by giving them this false sense of security and comfort and an experience that is pleasant. Then later, when they leave, they'll have to deal with reality and I just think it's a disservice.

Daniela

Yeah, it also doesn't make a class very engaging.

Caveh

Yeah, it makes it boring.

Daniela

Really boring. I've had a lot of boring classes where critiques are always just the same. And you don't even want to participate because at that point, it's kind of a lost cause.

Caveh

It's just like going through the motions. "I really liked your piece.. I'm trying to think of something really nice to say about it… okay… the lighting was really nice." But the essential isn't being said, which is "it was boring or it was annoying or it was not clear."

Daniela

I've never felt comfortable to even say negative things in a critique, even though I'm thinking it. So, it was really refreshing to kind of do that in your class and it didn't feel wrong or bad, which is what it felt like in those classes.

Caveh

Generally, people have said to me that they really appreciate my harshness and my criticism because they don't get that anywhere else. It makes them just not believe what anyone else is telling them and they're right. But, if you tell someone what you don't like and then you tell them what you do like, they believe you because they know that you will tell them if you don't like it.

Daniela

You have a daily journal. You also have Awkward Celebrity Encounters and you have 365 Stories Before You Before We Both Die, which is on Spotify. Those are mostly audio based. How much of it is the actual storytelling rather than the actual filmmaking that you enjoy? Because, especially in Personal Documentary, a lot of it was narrative pieces. Even The Show About The Show - a lot of it is just you telling the story.

Caveh

I was interviewed by somebody who listened to the podcast and they said, "It seems in a way you're not even really a filmmaker, primarily, "and I was like, "What do you think I am?" and they said, "A storyteller?" And I was like, "Oh, I guess that's kind of true." I'm not attached to the medium and I don't think I'm a particularly good filmmaker. I'm not great at it. I think whatever is good about my films has to do with my willingness to just be honest about my life and who I am and what I think. You can do that in any medium. So, yeah, I think I'm more invested in telling the story of my life.

Daniela

Do you ever think your influence over the students can have negative effects over the diversity of work being produced in your class?

Caveh

I mean, there's definitely a style that I push. It's true, that if somebody like you has a different style or is trying to do a different kind of thing it might not be a good fit. I think what I'm good at is getting to the heart of the story or figuring out what's important in the story on an emotional or human level and I think that can be applied in all kinds of ways. But I think most work benefits from some pressure put in that direction: clarity, essentialism, vulnerability. Those things are, generally speaking, good elements and ultimately, the proportions of those things in a person's work will be based on who they are. But I would like to think that, even if it's only a small amount, there's something helpful about being aware of that part of it. I mean, thinking about your work - I don't know what you've done since that class or where you're going, but having that pressure to contend with would probably make your work stronger, even if you're pushing against that or only accepting some of it.

Daniela

Right now, I'm taking another documentary class and I ended up making a video for my thesis. So, your class reminded me of video as a medium because that's something that I always liked doing when I was little, but I never considered it till now. Has a student ever influenced your personal work?

Caveh

I mean not really. I've had students help me with my work and that's been helpful. But influence? Not really. I mean, I have a pretty clear and fairly set aesthetic that I've evolved very gradually over time. So it would be hard for anything at this point to influence me very much.

Daniela

That's really cool. I feel like I'm still a baby, so…

Caveh

When I was your age, I was influenced by all kinds of things and constantly trying different ways of doing things based on other people's ways of doing things.

Daniela

How hard is it to balance being a teacher at the New School and being an artist with your own show and all these other projects that you're working on?

Caveh

It's not that hard. I try to teach things that either are relevant to what I would want to be looking at anyway or things that don't require a lot of outside work. In fact, it's helpful because it not only pays the bills, it also gives me structure and community.

Daniela

I saw that Greta Gerwig and Lena Dunham have credited you as an influence on their practice, but basically ghosted you after they achieved mainstream success. Are you content with being a behind-the-scenes inspiration for these movie makers as opposed to more widely admired by the consumers of these films?

Caveh

I mean, my choice isn't to be marginal or obscure, but I think I've made peace with it. I think I've realized that the price of being innovative or edgy is that you're not going to be popular. And I'd rather be innovative and edgy than popular. So, I'm fine with it. I just want to be able to make my work the way I like it. If it's not wildly popular, that's okay. I'd rather do that than make work I don't like as much just to be more popular.

Daniela

What do you think becoming mainstream does to an artist?

Caveh

It makes them more conservative. You have something to lose. Even me, who I don't think of as particularly successful - I think that the show has gotten more and more awareness around it and I think the podcast really helped. So I feel like I'm more famous now than I've ever been and I think it makes me more conservative. It makes me afraid of losing my audience and afraid of alienating people, whereas before I had zero thought of that because I had no audience. I mean, look at Greta - her early stuff is much more experimental and edgy than what she's doing now. Success tends to push you towards that end of the spectrum.

Daniela

You said that you're worried about losing your new audience, but your new audience found you through your old work.

Caveh

Well, for example, the podcast was pretty popular, but it's over. So, what do I do now? Do I do something that's just like that? Something that's even edgier than that? Is that going to lose some of those people? Something that's less edgy than that? Is that going to gain more people? That's where the questions are.

Caveh

Weirdly enough, my journal feels like the edgiest thing I've ever done and it's just the journal of my day. There's something about the immediacy of it and the fact that everyone I'm talking about reads it the next day that makes it very fraught. And people have a lot of feelings about it. It's gotten the most angry responses. It feels very dangerous to just write a journal and put it out there every day in real time. It's one thing to write a journal for a year and then publish it a year later when it's all history, it's another to do it when it's happening right now. It's a kind of transparency or something that feels very vulnerable.

Caveh

For example, I've noticed a few of my students subscribe to The Journal. It feels weird to be talking about my private life in a form that the students in my classes are reading. It gets rid of the hierarchy between students and teachers, where the teacher has this sort of aura. I mean, I'm against that hierarchy, but there's something comfortable about it where they don't know who you're having sex with or the problems you're having with your marriage. My whole art project is precisely to go against that. But, as a teacher, those things are a little bit at odds. Like, if I wasn't a teacher, I wouldn't care as much.

Daniela

I didn't see any of your work until after our class, which definitely created a different experience for me, because it's like, "Oh, my God, that's my teacher!" I remember seeing the I Am a Sex Addict trailer and I thought it was a joke. I didn't know it was actually genuine until after the class had ended. That was when things started to click for me and I started to understand what I just experienced in that class and it made your work even more interesting, because I kind of know you now. Would you say being a teacher and having that teacher student relationship has increased your viewership because of your popularity in The New School?

Caveh

I have noticed that my viewership is very young. People my age don't watch my show and generally aren't my audience. It's usually like 20-somethings. I don't know why but it seems like young people respond better to it than older people, even though I'm against PC culture, and all that stuff. And maybe the people that respond to it are the ones who aren't into that stuff, either, but it seems like it's speaking to something that younger people are feeling. Just looking at who reaches out to me and says they love my work - it's almost always people in college or people who just graduated from college.

Daniela

In the 24-hour telethon you did for The Show About the Show fundraiser, you were worried about Alex Karpovsky losing himself to the glamor of LA/Hollywood? What are some concerns you have about the film industry? Is it damaging to what you consider to be good art?

Caveh

Totally. I mean, Lena Dunham or Greta Gerwig or Alex Karpovsky: they're all really talented, sensitive, smart people who became successful to the point where they could make money doing what they love. But the cost is you have to play by certain rules and they all agreed to do that, for various reasons. Either they weren't that allergic to the rules, or they really needed the money or whatever. Just, the pressures are so great, and the rewards are so great, both financially and just in terms of public adoration. And I think all their work has suffered from their success.

Caveh

Alex was a more interesting filmmaker 10 years ago than he is now. Same with Lena, and same with Greta. I think the system - capitalism, Hollywood, those systems - they chew you up and spit you out. Nobody can withstand it. The only thing that protects you is being outside of it, where you can do your thing without having to deal with those pressures. I mean, I don't have a bunch of agents telling me that I can't do something because if I do, then we won't get a million dollar deal for this other thing. I just don't have that problem. And if I did, I'd probably be just like them. I would be like, "Okay, let's compromise. What do we have to do to make this deal go through?" So, it's a blessing on the one hand, but it's also like, I'm broke. But I don't mind being broke.

Daniela

Did you start out like, wanting to have that glamor and then slowly realized that maybe that's not something you really need or desire?

Caveh

Definitely. I started out wanting absolute fame, glory, and acceptance.

Daniela

Is there a reason you stayed in New York instead of going somewhere like California to make films?

Caveh

Well, I'm from California. I grew up there and I went to film school there, so I've experienced trying to make films in California. The kind of thing I make is just completely anathema to what they do and it never felt like a very good fit and New York just feels better. What I do, I could do anywhere, really. I mean, that's not true. I have a lot of people who help me and I don't think I could find those people anywhere. I mean, sometimes I still hope that one day some TV station will say, "Hey, we want to do a show with you." Actually, Viceland did give me money to do a pilot and it was a horrifying experience. They completely destroyed everything I did. And it was so clear that you can't make anything good through that filter. They just fuck everything up and although there's a lot of money to be had, the cost is huge.

Daniela

That kind of makes me a little scared, because I'm also obsessed with the idea of one day being a star.

Caveh

I think, if there was a way to do it, it's by not being part of the institutions. There are people who get famous just doing their own thing their own way and I think that's probably the way to do it, if at all. That does happen, though. It's not impossible.

Daniela

Would you say being in New York aligns with your values more? Does New York feel more honest?

Caveh

I mean, LA definitely does not. New York feels like unfettered capitalism: hierarchies and classism and status-seeking and hipsterism. These are all things I don't relate to. However, there's a certain respect for art and for intellect and for culture that is not present in LA. And that feels good, but I don't really feel super at home anywhere. It just feels less bad.

Daniela

What are you teaching about filmmaking that you didn't learn in school yourself?

Caveh

I learned almost nothing in film school. I left film school being really shocked at how unprepared I was for the real world. So I try to prepare people for the real world. And that's a combination of being critical, and also looking at DIY models of how to make work that can be sustainable. The main problem is that most people get caught up in what they call development hell where you're trying to make a film but it costs like $2 million. I've wasted years of my life doing this. You write a script and spend years on it. It's really good, you get actors attached, and you spend all this time trying to find financing and you just can't do it because it's hard to guarantee that it will make money. And you probably won't make money, because art doesn't really make money. What makes money is comfort foods and things that people can easily digest and don't have to be confused by. So, it's just a stupid waste of time and people need to make things that they can actually make. I mean, you're making a zine. That's exactly the right kind of thing to do. That's something you could probably pull off. But if you're trying to get a book published that could take years of your life. And it's better just to do it yourself.

Daniela

I have one last question: What do you think makes someone a superstar or what is a superstar to you?

Caveh

I mean, the word makes me think of Warhol. Warhol's whole thing was to sort of make fun of the term and to valorize ordinary people who are considered marginal or pathetic or undesirable. And so it was kind of valorizing what is unvalued. There's something awful about the term superstar or even star because I think we're all divine manifestations of God, and everyone is as valuable as anyone else. So, what does it mean to be a star? It means you're famous, I guess. But it implies some kind of specialness which I'm against. I think what's important is that we valorize everyone and that no one is special because everyone is special. It's not a term that I use, but if I did use it I would use it as a way to say everyone is more valuable than they think they are, and more valuable than anyone else thinks they are and that we need to see ourselves as infinitely valuable.

Daniela

I agree. That's what Superstars Only is about. Everyone can be a superstar.

Caveh

Increasingly, there are subcultures. And within a subculture somebody can be famous. Like, there's a subculture around me where they think I'm great, or brilliant, or whatever. I'm like a rockstar within a certain subculture. And in other parts of the culture, I'm a complete unknown or I'm a loser or a failure or undesirable. So, there isn't really a monoculture anymore. There used to be more so, but increasingly there isn't.

Caveh

I was filming something in LA with Alex Karpovsky recently and this woman was trying to say that we couldn't film without a permit. And I was like, "this is Alex Karpovsky." And she was like, "I don't know who that is." And I was like, "He was in Girls." And she was like, "I don't know what that is." And I was like, "You've never seen Girls?" And she was like, "No."

Caveh

So Karpovsky didn't register with her, but someone else would be jumping up and down. So, I think you can be a superstar in your circle of friends and they value you, they respect you, they understand you, they appreciate you. And how big that circle is—it's never going to be the whole world and it's just going to be as big as it is, and it's not like there's a number where it's true and a number where it's not true.

Daniela

So there are moments where that feeling goes up and down. Sometimes you feel like a superstar and sometimes you don't. It's not an everyday feeling.

Caveh

No, not at all. I was walking down the street with my son, who was probably 12 at the time, and what looked like a homeless guy was walking towards us. He's walking towards us and goes, "Big fan." And my son goes, "Did he just say big fan? Was he talking about you?" And I said, "I don't know. Maybe." And we were like, is this homeless looking guy a fan? Or is he just crazy? Maybe that guy knew I was and I was a superstar to him, but who knows?

Daniela

Maybe that homeless guy was just someone rocking the indie-sleaze fashion trend.

Caveh

Haha, yeah, that's true too.

Superstars Only

Interview with Caveh Zahedi